Wednesday, November 30, 2011

[CHICKENS-101] Crickets

 

I picked up a 100 count container of crickets for the hens/quail. I was worried they would jump on me (I hate the unpredictability of crickets and grasshoppers) but I didn't need to worry, the bugs didn't have the opportunity to jump at ALL, the birds consumed then almost before they hit the ground. It was quite a sight to behold :)

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[CHICKENS-101] Re: How long is too long?

 

Hi George, There are several schools of thought on washing or not to wash eggs. On the big factory farms every egg that goes through the plant gets a bath and is blow dried before it is placed in a carton. Some even say that they get sprayed with a thin coat of wax to seal up the pores so they have a longer shelf life. The detergent they use is many times stronger than anything we would use at home. The stuff they use would cause detergent burns on your hands if you didn't wear industrial strength rubber gloves.

I have heard the excuse of the bloom being washed away and the possibility of the eggs soaking up things through the waterproof membrane and making the egg taste nasty. I have never had that
problem and if an egg is cracked it isn't used for human consumption.
[Except if you are short on eggs and the egg was frozen solid]. An egg that otherwise looks good will often show hair line cracks after it has been in water a few seconds.

One reason I haven't had a problem is because I wash them in luke warm water. The egg exits the rear of the hen at 103 degrees farenheit which is at least 23 degrees warmer than luke warm. The eggs don't sit in the bath water more than a few minutes tops [only if they are extremely dirty] and then get rinsed thoroughly and then allowed to air dry on a towel before being placed in a carton. Once they have been rinsed you can't even smell any residual soap residue on the shell. Most of the eggs just get inspected and rinsed since they weren't showing dirt but needed to be rinsed to rid them of possible dust and to check for toe nail punctures and spider webbing caused by pressure cracks.

If a person keeps their hen house scrumptiously clean then I would agree
that they can skip the washing process and just lightly rinse the stuck on feathers and straw off a few eggs and be done with it.

I had a rather lengthy discussion on another site about washing hatching eggs. I learned that those people who participate in the NPIP program usually lightly wash their eggs in luke warm water with a little bleach to kill any surface germs before they set these eggs in the incubator. I also do this to my own eggs just before they go into the incubator. The incubator is one of the best places in the world to grow bacteria in epidemic proportions because of the warm, dark, and moist environment. Add a few dirty eggs with a lot of bacteria on the shell and you have the makings of a mini disease epidemic.

This bleach rinse is done to keep down the bacteria in the incubator and keeps the chicks from getting navel infections. This is a much gentler approach than fumigation of the incubator and the eggs, as is done by commercial hatcheries, with a caustic fumigation treatment part way through the incubation cycle. Some hatcheries fumigate twice during the incubation cycle.

When I lived at home we seldom ever washed an egg unless it was extremely dirty or they were going to be sold. At that time all of my
hobby chickens and guineas were raised under bantam hens. So as you can see I have done it both ways and neither way has managed to kill me yet. LOL

I have ceased to argue the point with most people. I have been a member of several Homesteading sites in the past and have been verbally beat ragged by people and their unwashed internet friends who believe wholistic [or Hosistic or Holism]is set in stone and even taking a bath cleanses away the miracle of creation and homeostasis. People like these claim to be deep thinkers but come off as nonthinkers who do everything the easiest and laziest way possible just to get by. They toss around a plethora of big words to cover any contingency for not taking a bath more than two times per year and they yield those big excuse words as expertly as the tooth fairy yields her magic wand.

These people put things into their refrigerator just the way they came from nature [dirt and all] and it is a wonder they haven't died or killed themselves and their kids with ptomaine posioning. Raw milk and other dairy products do not store well together with meat, garden dirt, and dried chicken manure in the same damp environment.

To give you a short example of what is crawling around in my mind right now here is a short and true story. A man I worked with and I were invited to the house of another man we worked with to see his new rental house and to help him move a few more loads of stuff from their old house. Since both of us had a pickup truck [and he didn't] we got guilt tripped into aiding the less fortunate.

After working and hauling furnature and other stuff across town for the next 5 hours solid, 7am to noon, we were invited to stay for dinner. I pretty well knew my host's people because I had worked with his father long before this young man showed up at the job. His father was the type of person that if a fly messed with his sandwich too much he tossed it in the trash.

This young man's wife was a different type of individual. She was home schooled and we were later to learn that she was raised by free spirit, back to nature, sometimes nudist, wholistic, hippie type parents. This deffinately gave this girl a different twist on life.

She was about to fix the meal and said I hope you like burger! And then leaned down to get a skillet off the floor that a cat was eating out of and wiped it out into the trash with a paper towel. She then put it on the burner, fired it up, dropped a few burgers in the skillet, and the big guy I arrived with ran out the door.

I excused myself "because I had dinner waiting at home" and could honestly get by with it. And then I soon followed the big guy out the door.

When I arrived at work a few short hours later I approached my large friend and asked him straight faced, "Don't you like hamburger?" To which he replied,"The burger was fine. I'm allergic to cat spit."

So George, If I come off sounding like a Goody two shoes or Mister Clean you can relate back to this posting as a reference. There are those times in our lives when we wish it were possible to actually pop the cap on our skull and wash our brain with a big brush. But since we can't we have to learn to live with it the best we can. Dean
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"Old George" <barnmanager@...> wrote:

I agree with everything Dean has written except the use of detergent to clean the eggs. Sorry Dean, Egg shells are leak once the "bloom" has been washed off. Now one could argue that the membrane inside the shell would protect the insides but I don't think so. Don't want dish soap in my breakfast.
Ol' George

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[CHICKENS-101] Re: Guineas In My Henhouse

 


Hi Laura: The short answer is "Yes you can" the second line reads "GOOD LUCK WITH THAT". Many folks run coops with mixed flocks. The results are entirely unpredictable. After a few years raising poultry I can say with some confidence that You never know what's going to happen. No matter what you do one of the most important things is "space". Some birds require more room than others, some can be caged without harm. Whatever, overcrowding is asking for trouble. Any flock of birds will resent newcomers, sometimes violently. It depends on how strong the territorial thing is. In the case of Game Cocks the only answer is surrender or die. Gamecocks don't surrender.
Ol George

--- In CHICKENS-101@yahoogroups.com, Laura Quick <goatsnchickens@...> wrote:
>
> I'm curious about housing guineas and chickens together as I'd consider getting guines down the line. Also peafowl. Can you with both/all three chime in as to which you had first and how old they were when you put them together and how that went? Also, how they are housed and how many you have? 
> THANKS!
> Laura in Los Angeles
>

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[CHICKENS-101] Re: Guineas In My Henhouse

 

got 25 day old chicks in Aug this year
when they were 5 weeks old bought 5 5-week old Guineas put them all together in brooder - there was some pecking ( mostly the guineas being pecked AT)

- dont recall when they all went into the coop.. 8 weeks?
its a 8x8 coop with a 8x16 fenced run.

When we are home on weekends etc they all free-range on the 2acres ( and sometimes into the neighbors corn field)
They all come in at night.. guineas are often the first ones in.

so far its the guineas that the roosters are trying to have their way with, the guineas seem to be oblivious to whats going on.. (sex wise)

seems like the smaller chickens like to hang out with them, maybe they get protection? I know they cuddled alot when they were young...

--- In CHICKENS-101@yahoogroups.com, Laura Quick <goatsnchickens@...> wrote:
>
> I'm curious about housing guineas and chickens together as I'd consider getting guines down the line. Also peafowl. Can you with both/all three chime in as to which you had first and how old they were when you put them together and how that went? Also, how they are housed and how many you have? 
> THANKS!
> Laura in Los Angeles
>

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[CHICKENS-101] Re: Guineas In My Henhouse

 

I'm curious about housing guineas and chickens together as I'd consider getting guines down the line. Also peafowl. Can you with both/all three chime in as to which you had first and how old they were when you put them together and how that went? Also, how they are housed and how many you have? 
THANKS!
Laura in Los Angeles

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[CHICKENS-101] Re: How long is too long?

 

I agree with everything Dean has written except the use of detergent to clean the eggs. Sorry Dean, Egg shells are leak once the "bloom" has been washed off. Now one could argue that the membrane inside the shell would protect the insides but I don't think so. Don't want dish soap in my breakfast.
Ol' George

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[CHICKENS-101] Re: Age to butcher

 

Dawn, Some while back there was a lady from California that was into meat hunting, ie. anything that moved, She raised chickens and sold the roosters at top price. She kept them until they were a about year old and sold them for $15.00 ea. On slaughter day she have customers waiting at the gate. On a large ranch the chickens really had the run of the place. I don't remember what breeds she had but they were not what we call "meat birds" They were things like RIRs, Plymouth Rocks, Australorps. etc. Regular chickens. Any of the various heavys would be the same.
Ol' George

--- In CHICKENS-101@yahoogroups.com, gothchickenlady <gothchickenlady@...> wrote:
>
> I'm contemplating ordering straight run chicks now, either Barred or a Heavy assortment knowing the majority will be roos. Sorta leaning towards the Barred because I don't want to raise Cornish.
> Question how old before able to send to freezer camp? I'm planning on selling them, not for my own consumption.
>
> Gothy in DE
>
>  
>

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[CHICKENS-101] Re: Guineas In My Henhouse

 

Hmmmm - I've had 8 Guineas.......5 male, 3 female.......for a half dozen or so years now all living in the same 12' x 12' coop with my small flock of large chickens (1 male, 5 female, 'tho one of those hens is a now-2 yr old little tiny red banty).  Guineas were here for a year before I got any chickens, so were all full grown when the chickens moved in and were not "raised under Bantam hens".  And yet I've not had any one of the problems you describe.
  Peace begets peace, I guess.........LOL
                                                          Kate in WI  :-)
 
 
 
<< Posted by: "lafleche49" hobbyguy@centurytel.net lafleche49
Hi Renee, I have raised a lot of guineas in the past, thousands of them. I learned early that you have to keep at least 1 male for every 4 guinea hens or the males will beat the tar out of the chickens.

People will tell you that you need to have one male for every female and this just isn't so. I have had several males that set up breeding groups of as many as ten hens to one male and all of their eggs were fertile.

I can remember a neighbor who was told by some person who didn't know
get up from sickem that he had to have his mallard ducks in pairs as they mated this way in the wild. I tried to tell him that 3 drakes for 15 hens would be more than enough but he thought I was giving him bad advice. 

He had all of these young drakes on the place and when one of the little hens went from her nest to the swimming hole to wash off she would be attacked by all of these drakes and would often be drowned by them. After 3 months he had 15 drakes and only one little hen with 4 ducklings left.

In every group there is going to be a guinea male who thinks that he runs the show despite what you think. I have ran as many as 300 breeder guineas on free range and had few problems. Then one day an over bearing male with a bad attitude will start trouble for you.

He may start beating up on chickens, other guineas, try to take the rest of the flock into the trees at dusk,or even kill kittens. He knows better but wants to test the limit of your patience.

When I kept a lot of guineas I also kept the metal scalding bucket handy because I might have to butcher a guinea or two on a minute's notice.

Since I always had extra of everything when a male started throwing these tantrums to defy the normally good order of things I would walk to the house and return with a 22 caliber rifle and shoot him in the head. You would be surprised at how fast a group of follower guineas will run to get to the roosts in the chicken house when you kill their ring leader.

I try to tell everyone who is new to raising guineas and also has a flock of chickens that they need to cull out their guineas every year to just a few males [roughly a ratio of 1 male to 3 hens] and then keep a close eye out for the trouble makers. When a male guinea is busy with several hens it gives him little time to cause problems elsewhere.

If you have nothing but rooster guineas and have them running with a small flock of large chickens you will have nothing but trouble until you separate them, bring in a few guinea hens, and finally get rid of the worst males of the group. It is a horrible idea to have guineas and bantams housed together. The guinea males will usually beat the little roosters to death and wool the little hens to the point that they are too stressed to lay.

The exception to this rule is if you have raised ALL of your guineas under these bantam hens then you won't have any problems. If you hatch all of your guineas under Silkie bantam hens and let them raise these little rascals them you can hardly tell there is a guinea on the place. It is a matter of nature, nurture, and imprinting that changes their attitudes. Dean
>>

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[CHICKENS-101] Re: How long is too long?

 

Thanks Dean, and everyone else, for all the great answers!

Anne

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Tuesday, November 29, 2011

[CHICKENS-101] Re: Guineas In My Henhouse

 

Hi Renee, I have raised a lot of guineas in the past, thousands of them. I learned early that you have to keep at least 1 male for every 4 guinea hens or the males will beat the tar out of the chickens.

People will tell you that you need to have one male for every female and this just isn't so. I have had several males that set up breeding groups of as many as ten hens to one male and all of their eggs were fertile.

I can remember a neighbor who was told by some person who didn't know
get up from sickem that he had to have his mallard ducks in pairs as they mated this way in the wild. I tried to tell him that 3 drakes for 15 hens would be more than enough but he thought I was giving him bad advice.

He had all of these young drakes on the place and when one of the little hens went from her nest to the swimming hole to wash off she would be attacked by all of these drakes and would often be drowned by them. After 3 months he had 15 drakes and only one little hen with 4 ducklings left.

In every group there is going to be a guinea male who thinks that he runs the show despite what you think. I have ran as many as 300 breeder guineas on free range and had few problems. Then one day an over bearing male with a bad attitude will start trouble for you.

He may start beating up on chickens, other guineas, try to take the rest of the flock into the trees at dusk,or even kill kittens. He knows better but wants to test the limit of your patience.

When I kept a lot of guineas I also kept the metal scalding bucket handy because I might have to butcher a guinea or two on a minute's notice.

Since I always had extra of everything when a male started throwing these tantrums to defy the normally good order of things I would walk to the house and return with a 22 caliber rifle and shoot him in the head. You would be surprised at how fast a group of follower guineas will run to get to the roosts in the chicken house when you kill their ring leader.

I try to tell everyone who is new to raising guineas and also has a flock of chickens that they need to cull out their guineas every year to just a few males [roughly a ratio of 1 male to 3 hens] and then keep a close eye out for the trouble makers. When a male guinea is busy with several hens it gives him little time to cause problems elsewhere.

If you have nothing but rooster guineas and have them running with a small flock of large chickens you will have nothing but trouble until you separate them, bring in a few guinea hens, and finally get rid of the worst males of the group. It is a horrible idea to have guineas and bantams housed together. The guinea males will usually beat the little roosters to death and wool the little hens to the point that they are too stressed to lay.

The exception to this rule is if you have raised ALL of your guineas under these bantam hens then you won't have any problems. If you hatch all of your guineas under Silkie bantam hens and let them raise these little rascals them you can hardly tell there is a guinea on the place. It is a matter of nature, nurture, and imprinting that changes their attitudes. Dean

Below is a link to Show Me Silkies & Stuff where a young man raises several species of domestics and ornamental fowl. He raises his guinea keets under Silkie hens and as you can see there aren't many problems.
http://showmesilkies.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=870006
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"roundofappaws@..." <roundofappaws@...> wrote:

I had an awful time with my guineas and went to the Guinea Forum for advice. Seems that males in number larger than the guinea females will take to attacking the chickens. I had four males, couldn't find any females (unless I wanted to chance another set of chicks). I was also told that if I caged them for awhile their hormones would settle (they were a year old). They were in a run with the chickens for 4 months. Every time I turned them out, whether it be one or four they attacked the hens. I made the mistake of turning all four out the first time and they immediately ganged up on a young hen. BTW, they all had access to free range, but the guineas never left the yard except to pound around on the roof.

In the end I got rid of them. Now, I don't know if the disturbance you are having = egg production drop, tis that time of year for less.

Good luck!
Renee
S CA

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[CHICKENS-101] Re: How long is too long?

 

The original question was how long can an egg set in the nest before it is no longer considered any good to eat? If your hens are nonsetters and the weather is nice and cool the answer would be a week or more. If the weather is hot and the hens just go straight to the nests, lay, and leave then again the eggs should be good for at least 4 days to a week. As long as the hens are careful and don't rattle the eggs around in the nest until they are broken they will stay good for a long time.

People seem to forget that the majority of setting hens begin to lay their hidden nests at least 20 days before they decide to start setting. If you were to crack and inspect every egg in that nest of 20 plus day old eggs you would be surprised to find that none of them have gone bad and are still good to eat. Nature needs the same quality of egg to create a chick as you would want for your breakfast. Any criteria that would make an egg fit to enter or win in an egg competition is exactly what nature desires to make the perfect baby chick.

If you have roosters then you really never have to worry about an egg going bad and not knowing it. Fertile eggs will rot when the seal has been compromised by bacteria. If it looks cloudy when cracked in a clear cup then by all means toss it without a thought.

Personally I never crack an egg directly into anything I am making. First it gets cracked into a clear cup to be inspected and to keep any stray egg shell from making it's way into whatever I am cooking. I do this with city eggs as well as the ones I raise myself. Sometimes there are "things" inside of eggs that would make us throw out an entire batch of cookie batter rather than try to salvage it. It only takes a second to crack and inspect an egg and could save you a world of headaches if you don't.

Hens that do not have a rooster in the yard with them pose a greater health threat in a back yard situation. Their eggs can harbor salmonella
and there is no way of visually knowing this fact. However I wouldn't get upset if you gather your eggs on a regular schedule and keep clean straw in the nests then you have little to worry about. An unfertilized egg will dry up in the shell but it will never rot and this is what makes keeping these types of eggs for over 2 months in your refrigerator a bit risky. That is why the stores put an estimated expiration date on the factory eggs to let you know when to toss them. A fertilized egg cancels itself out when it becomes unfit to eat.

I have read it at least 500 times on how to separate and freeze excess eggs in ice cube trays. Personally I wouldn't do it unless I lived so far back in the boonies that I had to take a pack mule train 9 miles to the nearest road just to buy feed and get my needed groceries once a month. Most people aren't this inconvenienced these days unless they really work at it.

Eggs are mostly water filled cells that when frozen burst and become runny when they are defrosted. After a week they can, just like ice cubes do, get a real bad refrigerator odor. I would not recommend keeping a frozen egg around more than a couple of weeks before freezing the second batch, putting them in freezer bags, and frying up the first batch for the cats and dogs.

Eggs that are gathered when frozen and even cracked can be salvaged
if you get right on it. Some people say they are ruined if they are cracked but if they aren't gathered from a dirty nest or have something nasty on them then why would they be bad? Just wash them a little bit under cool running water to remove any dust specks and put them directly into the refrigerator in an egg carton.

They will begin to thaw in the refrigerator since it is warmer than their internal temperature. They will have the same sad quality as any other frozen egg so it is best to use them the next day ASAP. These eggs are probably best served as a scrambled egg along with a few others of better quality. Usually after a frozen egg sets in the refrigerator over night it goes back to it's original unfrozen state and the shell often reseals itself; sometimes to the point that you really have to look very closely to figure out which one was cracked.
Just a note here, all eggs that have been frozen are usually cloudy so do not take this as an indicator of being a bad egg. The cell membranes have ruptured and the egg has changed color just the same as a bruise
does on skin because the cells have been ruptured.

Someone mentioned stained eggs and these are just as good internally as one that is not stained. You wouldn't throw a child away because they had a dirty face and the same applies to eggs. They may not look the greatest but they are still salvageable.

When I have a few eggs that are dirty I soak them for a while in a sink of luke warm water with a couple of squirts of Dawn dish washing soap to make a good head of suds. Then I take each one and carefully scrub them with a Scotts scouring pad, rinse them under clean luke warm water and this usually gets rid of the stain. There are a lot of things other than chicken droppings that can and do stain an egg shell. Certain types of straw when damp can stain an egg as well as a nest made from oak that has drawn moisture. There are several brands of feed that when they get wet or stick to the wet feet of a hen before she goes to her nest, will stain eggs so badly that it is almost next to impossible to get the stain out. Dean
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"Rebecca" <luckydog23@...> wrote:

the gal up the road from me suggested that I take a plastic ice tray and divide the eggs, white in one side, yoke in the other, then freeze them. that way when baking or cooking and the recipe calls for whites or yokes, I have just the thing all ready to use. (nice tip!)

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